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Author Topic: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?  (Read 44220 times)

ctres

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2016, 08:23:24 AM »
I use precocking on my btc spectre in my 416 when I can remember to activate it. With riot 10:1s, frankentorque, a precocking the only limit to how fast it can fire semi auto is how fast you can pull the trigger.

I haven't kept up with airsoft mechanics much over the last year or so, so I wasn't aware of any trend towards high speed motors with high ratio gears. Have you experimented with it yet?

As for batteries, I have a couple 7.4s but never use them. While I'm sure any gun can be set up to be effective with them upping the voltage is an easy shortcut to faster trigger response and with a mosfet there really is nothing to worry about.

T6e9a

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2016, 10:43:25 AM »
My CQB M4 currently has Seigetek 20:1 spur and sector with an 8 tooth DSG, paired with a ZCI balanced motor at the moment. I cant accurately measure the ROF, but i want to say its around 50 with 11.1v. Though I believe some of the big names on Airsoft Teching Q&A on Facebook have the 20:1 DSG with a 10 TPA motor and are in the area of 65 rps. They had that side by side with a 10:1 DSG of similar performance and measured the amp draw and other electrical quantities.

I have tried both trends, and probably like the high torque/low ratio a bit better. Though I am very satisfied with the outcome of my personal 20:1 DSG (aside from the over spin. With a Spectre, that can easily be dealt with, but I prefer to deal with such issues mechanically as opposed to electronically)

Like you last mentioned, pretty much for any stock gun, a mosfet and using 11.1 is a big improvement on response and rate of fire by easy means. (as in not dabbling too much with the internals)
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ctres

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2016, 01:56:50 PM »
Wow who even makes a 10 TPA motor? Or is it custom wound? When I stopped paying attention everyone was still using 20+ TPA armatures.

T6e9a

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2016, 04:20:51 PM »
10 TPA I believe is in the G&P 170 or 180 Satan/Devil Jet. One of the two.
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Guts and Glory

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2016, 04:59:35 PM »
I'm probably one of the more hesitant folks in terms of tech, but from the last few times I have played in the past 2 years, I have a few thoughts to make.

  • The rise of semi auto only has naturally been responded to with these faster trigger responses or rof builds, but I also feel that the issue of overshooting has either remained the same or increased in response.
  • I would honestly now prefer getting hit with a single burst than by someone whose semi auto results in me feeling like I just got hosed down by a SAW.
  • Regarding smgs, I would probably endorse being allowed full auto within a certain fps limit, perhaps as long as the replica in question doesn't have a hicap.  I think it delves into whether it also be limited to number of magazines as well.  For example, myself with my bizon replica and one hilariously sized magazine versus a person with a dedicated mp5 setup with more magazines and means of swapping between them/reloading.  How would that feel from the viewpoint of an opposing player who is semi only with their typical ar replica?


I do for the most part appreciate the semi auto system, but I feel that more kinks have to be ironed out if the goal is to have a "balanced" game mindset versus a "steamroller" mindset that at times has shown itself at games.

TLDR:  I feel like I have seen much more overshooting in the past few years than when I started out, and I am too technically inept to understand things to find an ideal balance.
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T6e9a

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2016, 09:10:18 PM »
Over shooting is honestly up to the player. The platform is capable, but the player enables. Moderation and respect are key, but I agree with the rise as opposed to way back.
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luke213

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 09:58:15 PM »
I'd agree even with full auto being common at our games with the rise of high ROF in general it means getting shot more whether its on semi or auto. I think the semi auto rule makes sense but like you said with the ability to shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger that changes the balance again. I wonder if an ammo cap or limit might be the answer because at least that would limit the total output and make guys more selective with their shooting. Makes me want smarter guns with more field based software control ;)

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Gimpalong

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2016, 10:33:42 AM »
I think imposing a semi-auto only rule is the only way to combat the sort of high ROF abuses that have become common with high-end AEGs and HPA systems. Not only is semi-auto only more realistic, but it also helps to create more dimensionality in the game where teams have to think more about how to employ their SAWs and MGs. I like the trend of having different weapon systems on the field from standard rifles to SAWs/MGs to GLs firing TAG rounds to pea grenades and mortars.

Having come over from paintball waaayy back in 2006, I saw how high ROF was starting to ruin that hobby. The trend for years had been faster and faster guns and while ROF had increased, the cost of entry for those high ROF platforms had come way down due to guns like the Smart Parts Ion and easily accessible "ramping" fire modes. Airsoft has largely been free of this "arms race" because everyone has always had the ability to fire in fully-automatic with a decent ROF. It's only been since the introduction of HPA platforms that we've seen buzz-saw level rates of fire. Sure, DSG guns are out there, but were never super common.

I'm not arguing against HPA platforms. I love all three of mine and don't own any AEGs any more. But I do think semi-auto only is the way to go.

luke213

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Re: Airsoft ROF - Which do you prefer and why?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2016, 11:31:46 AM »
I've been thinking allot about this whole thing and relating to it the whole ruining the hobby element of various things within airsoft. And further whether I'm contributing to it if I'm honest. The reason in my case is long range shooting more so than ROF, but the same principle applies or is along the same lines. When I started playing again most of my guns were 400fps and under builds from way back in the day and it took allot to get them back on track and fully functional again. But I also built out my bolt gun since I always wanted to try sniping and that was the reason behind the purchase years before I just never got around to upgrading since the interim years I hadn't played. None the less I built out something that could shoot 100+ yards took a while but it was done. And afterwards I noticed an uptick in velocity at our games, guys who normally were shooting 400fps all of a sudden started pushing that further. Then I went ahead and built out my M16 which also shoots very long ranges, it's basically a semi auto sniper rifle running in the 550fps range as well. This allowed that long range combined with a quicker fire rate. Which again seemed to push guys further that direction more commonly. And I'm not saying I'm purely responsible for that change, or that it was in response to my builds it might have happened anyways. But it seems like it was related.

Now the point of this, is that several guys have moved that direction and had various issues much like high ROF guns. They aren't typically that reliable as a platform especially compared to stock FPS/ROF builds. They can be, but often times they just break down more often. Which takes more time and money to repair etc. So some of those guys who may have built stuff to respond to things I built haven't been playing as often and I wonder if that's also part of the problem. IE as the arms race continues whether it's in ROF or FPS that you see a dropping off of guys who either don't have the time/money to compete at those levels or don't have the patience or generally get irritated that things aren't reliable at those levels.

So that's my theory of sorts and it applies to ROF or FPS. But in the same token my own 2 cents is that I like the classes of the system. IE I like long range shooting, and it plays to my patience now that I'm older on the field. As well I'm not much for pushing up and assault, I can do it but it's really not my normal role. I tend to hang back and shoot long range, use concealment much more often etc. But I think some guys might see that shot come in from long range and think hey he's got an advantage. But the reality is while yes I do at that 65-110 yard range, once I get in under 65 yards the advantage tips fast in the direction of a normal AEG. So it makes me wonder if maybe the class roles need to be cleanly separated and further taught and understood by players. The reason I say that is I don't think guys realize how many headaches can go into higher end builds and the disadvantages of said setups. If they did it might help slow/stop the common arms race mentality. And I'm not saying stop guys from taking on a new role or type of play. If they want to play higher ROF or higher FPS that's fine it's really up to all of us to determine our play style. But I guess the question is do we the players somewhat driving that arms race have a responsibility to do something different to help keep the sport fair and fun for those with lesser time or money.

Hope that makes sense, bit of an essay but I'm curious what other guys think about this sort of thing as well as ideas on how to keep things fun. Since that really plays into the ROF stuff.

Luke
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